Brett Frazer – Vice President of Customer Service at Sun Basket [CX Metrics]

Brett Frazer – Vice President of Customer Service at Sun Basket. Brett talks about why your customers deserve the best, and breaks down the basics, how to measure it, and show a return on investment.

Nick Glimsdahl 0:07
Hello, and welcome to another episode on press one for Nick. My guest on the podcast today is Brett Frazier. Brett is the Vice President of consumer services at Sun basket. Welcome to the podcast, Brett.

Brett Frazer 0:19
Hey, it’s great to be here. Thanks, Nick. Yeah, so

Nick Glimsdahl 0:22
I noticed I was trying to find a little bit a little nugget on what things what people might not know about. Yeah. And I noticed that you won a cx Leadership Award and somebody who’s in customer service. That seems like it’s kind of a big deal. Can you tell me more about that?

Brett Frazer 0:38
Yeah, that’s an award that I was given by get feedback, get feedback is the partner that we use for our surveys. And this year, they started down a path of identifying cx ambassadors, non so people they saw across the industry clients and non clients that they felt just kind of embodied a lot of what they were thinking and looking at as to how to drive, you know, this continuous focus on improve experiences. And so great opportunity provided a bog for them had access to some great mentorship through their program, and in the same way, also providing input and feedback and content for their programs to help pass on to other providers and other experts.

Nick Glimsdahl 1:24
That’s great. Yeah, it’s always interesting to glean information from somebody like yourself, who does have the experience on the customer service side, and congratulations on on winning the award.

Brett Frazer 1:35
Thank you. Thank you. I was actually the the COVID month award. Ambassador. So I’m the ambassador for March. I’m not sure if that’s what everyone wants to have tag for the 2020. But I’m happy for it.

Nick Glimsdahl 1:46
You will never forget the month that you were awarded the CX Leadership Award. Yeah. As so for the listeners who don’t know what you do. What does what is tell us a little bit about sun basket?

Brett Frazer 2:01
Yeah, some basket is the leading leading premium meal kit and fresh and ready meal delivery company. You know, we’re focused on delivering delicious, organic and healthy food directly to our customers to make what’s for dinner, a simple answer, and really, you know, create access to healthy, delicious, organic and clean food for anyone across America. We currently are able to hit about 47 states in the country, not Alaska, not Hawaii yet. And there’s pretty much most of Montana, we can’t get to most of the rest of the country we’re able to facilitate and deliver to actually just checked in last week for another event. And turns out over the past five and a half years that we’ve been around, we’ve delivered over 65 million meals to customers across America. So you know, really proud of what we do. And for me, it’s such a great fit. I grew up on a farm in New Zealand. My parents, my father was a vet, but they also farmed beef cattle. We had our own garden and veggie garden etc. and from a young age, my parents had my brother’s sister and I cook one night a week and my brother was like most people and kind of had four or five things he had rotate through, maybe up to 10. My sister cook the exact same meal every Wednesday night for three years, I will never order Hungarian Hungarian goulash again in my life. And my my goal was to try and cook something different every week. So, you know, I’ve been in the customer service space for 20 plus years, mostly in tech. And when somebody came knocking on the door to me it was just this perfect combination of bringing in my background and from customer service and his passion and background and farming and cooking. Hmm,

Nick Glimsdahl 3:57
that’s amazing. It doesn’t sound like your sister delivered on delivered on very good customer service or experience.

Well some people love repeatability.

Yeah, no, absolutely. It’s uh, it’s funny that you will never have that for dinner again. But you know, when it comes to your guyses menu or the options that you have, I kind of looked online and there’s a paleo option a vegetarian option a lean and clean and gluten a carb conscious, you know, so there’s so many options and you deliver it in so many states and I’m sure that you are a consumer of sun basket. So what is your favorite meal at Sun basket?

Brett Frazer 4:37
Yeah, there’s so many meals that we have chef Justine and her team come up with some amazing creations. Some of them you know, have their own some, you know, our spins on traditionals etc. I don’t have one that just pops out but but one that when it comes does come up on the menu that you know that I always do and actually happens to be on the menu this week. With my Maybe surprising for a guy who grew up on a beef farm in New Zealand, but it’s our lentil mushroom and apricot burger. Just a phenomenal, phenomenal burger of men meat, like meatless, but just amazing taste amazing texture. And just those, those combination of ingredients come together in a way that you wouldn’t imagine. Hmm,

Nick Glimsdahl 5:21
yeah, it actually sounds really good. I’ve tried to expand the palate a little bit. And it’s amazing some of the things that there was a pizza that I had the other day and it was a it was it was it was it was called the Porky fig and it had meat and it had blue cheese and a couple of things in it and things I probably would have Yeah, in a fig right. And, and I probably would have never tried that prior. But I was at this event and and I tried it for free. And now it’s their main staple in this pizza place. And I ordered every time that I get the chance. So it’s amazing. To

Brett Frazer 6:01
buy blue cheese, I enjoy figs. And I think that’s a great flavor combination.

Nick Glimsdahl 6:05
Yeah, absolutely. So you know, outside of the the awards that you want, as an individual, I noticed that sun basket was ranked number six among companies with the nicest customer service according to Reader’s Digest. So what makes sun basket the sixth nicest customer service department,

Brett Frazer 6:23
I think we’ve got great readers at the Reader’s Digest, don’t love that product. But you know, I think seriously, it comes down to the fact that, you know, we work hard, and everybody works hard, but we work hard at listening. With our customers, we work hard it, you know, taking that, what we hear from our customers and talking with our internal teams, making changes, making mistakes, you know, learning from those mistakes, you know, and at the end of the day, we realize this truly is kind of a continuous journey, we’ll never get to perfection, but we’re always moving towards it. And you know, that element of nice nurses, you know, is good, because that means you’ve kind of you’ve created that connection with your customer. And I think really, ultimately, that’s what it comes down to is your customer feels, that they’re understood and that they’re considered, right. And that connection is there as to as to when they come to us with a problem that, you know, we want to understand why and why it is a problem to them. And focus on giving them a solution as quickly as we can.

Nick Glimsdahl 7:30
Yeah, it’s, it does sound like the Reader’s Digest are pretty smelly, smart people. And so one thing that I had thought is okay, so their organization is a sixth nicest customer service, what advice would you Breton give to someone else to help them to get into the top 20, or even the top, top 100 nicest customer service departments?

Brett Frazer 7:58
I think, you know, a lot of it comes down to really looking at the core basics to begin with. And I think that gets forgotten a lot. One of the things with this industry that we can often get tied up in and wrapped up when is you need to create this amazing, over the top exceeding expectation experience for customers. And the reality is, I don’t think as customers, that’s what we truly want. Yeah. I don’t know of anybody who’s told me I woke up this morning thinking, Oh, great, I get to call XYZ company’s customer service, and they’re gonna exceed my expectations today.

Yeah. No, they

want to call and I say when when they do want to need to reach out, they want someone to listen to understand why it’s important to them, and to focus on giving them that solution, a fair solution as quickly as possible. And so I think, you know, really kind of focusing in on some of the core basics that have been, you know, looked away from and making that the focus, because it’s so easy to get caught up in in the important and non urgent, right, the energy of urgency, right sorry, not Yeah, the the so called easy to get caught up in the in the energy of urgency that we don’t focus necessarily on always the important things that may not be urgent. And so kind of back to the Stephen Covey, you know, quadrants piece is where I spend a lot of time my coaching My team is to try to make that distinction between urgent and important and urgent, right. And if you find yourself just on the urgent things kind of focus well what should I be doing that’s not urgent, but I know is important. And so kind of having that wrapped around perspective of focusing on what are those basics and, and really driving into those basics. And then making sure you’ve got a really good wrapper around not only your customers, but your your staff as well. Right and how do you kind of bring that perspective fully together?

Nick Glimsdahl 9:59
Yeah. No, I think that’s great advice. There’s, there’s a lot of organizations that get busy kind of doing the minutia work, and not truly focusing on what the customers need. And or want. And, and a lot of times, and I’ve said this before on a different podcast, but everybody thinks that they need to deliver that Amazon experience. And it’s, it’s your version of Amazon and your customers expectations are what’s most important, and listening to those kind of like what you mentioned. You know, one of the questions that I wanted to ask is, as somebody who is a vice president of customer service, you know, what kind of challenges are you facing in your role?

Brett Frazer 10:38
I think,

a little bit back to what I mentioned, right? It’s, uh, how do you prioritize the time and energy and resources that you have? Because the reality is, we’re always going to have more work than there is resources to get it done. Right. It’s just, it’s the reality of our business. Even when we kind of hopefully start making that shift in organizations to be seen more of an investment, you never get to go all the investment you need. And so it’s how do you help to prioritize not only what your workers but how do you help to shift and prioritize the narrative of the work that needs to be done throughout the rest of the company that gets the biggest opportunity for many of us as cx leaders, is how do we truly emphasize amplify that voice of customer goal that we have coming into our contact centers? And really use that partly for what’s in our control of how do we do a better job when our customers have to come to us? But more importantly, how do we do a good job of aggregating that information off and feeding out to our peers, leaders across the rest of the organization, and help them identify where they can make changes in their business that prevent the reason for the customers having to contact us in the first place. And I think that’s the biggest challenge that we have, is really being able to service that up. And both that ways. And it’s that duality, of being the voice of the customer to the company and the voice of the company to the customer.

Nick Glimsdahl 11:59
Yeah, that’s, that’s actually very well said. So I appreciate that. One of the main topics that I want to focus on is on this sentence, it’s, your customers deserve the best? Yes. What does that mean to you?

Brett Frazer 12:14
So I think I’ve had this kind of gut feeling for the longest period of time. And, and I think in many respects, the word best has been perverted over time to mean, extraordinary or Amazing, right. And as I mentioned earlier, No one calls up and says, I want to experience amazing customer service today, right? They want to have that focus, like I said, on somebody who listens, understands the situation, why it’s important to us, and gives us that fear solution with as little effort as possible on our part. And so when I think of the best, I think of that best from a consistency perspective of, we’re doing the best within that realm of what it truly our customers are looking for. Because if you spend all your energy and your effort on extraordinary going above and creating more than what they expected, we know what what you just did is what they expect the next time. So now you need to work harder and harder and harder at the stuff that doesn’t matter. And so when I think you’ve kind of the basics on there, you know, it kind of comes down to a few core things for me. Okay, right. It’s how do you provide the right access? Right, the right channels, and then give guidance, where possible, to be able to give them set up for success to choose the axis of the channel that’s going to be best for their situation? Right? How do you how do you allow for that aspect of understanding and empathy from your staff. And that’s huge. And it’s so hard in many circumstances, because we kind of forget about that connection. And depending on the product, it may be that your staff don’t get to use your product. And so it’s really difficult to create that empathetic understanding and connection. So then it’s more important for us to how do you design and you can where you can’t fake empathy, you can manufacturer. And so there’s ways that you can create scenarios and situations so that your agents even if they can’t be consumers, your product can have those experiences around why mistakes with the product matters so much, and what that impact customers are, that their understanding and empathy connects together. And it’s that commitment, it’s a commitment to really follow through an ownership, timeliness. Right. And so people want that speed around it. And the last ones follow through and follow through really on to things follow through back into that customer. But not only is it there, but then what I mentioned earlier that follow through the rest with the rest of the organization that follow through on that cumulative experience if your customers to make that experience better and less effort overall and working with your company.

Nick Glimsdahl 14:51
Yeah, that it seems so easy. So the basics that I hear at the high level kind of what you broke through What you walk through and I really appreciate it was access, understanding, empathy, commitment, timeliness, and then follow through. So in everybody else in the industry, why is it so hard for other customer service departments to follow through on these, quote unquote, basics?

Brett Frazer 15:23
You know, I think

as to what I mentioned earlier, I think there’s a huge pressure upon us to provide exceptional service. Yeah, right. And there’s such a focus to do that, that you’re, you’re thinking, Well, what else rather than realizing the what is, and it’s harder, and, you know, even even after I’ve sat down with my CFO, and we’ve aligned on the value of consistent service, and that high consistency and this element around, you know, focusing on effort rather than satisfaction, every now and again, a histogram go, you know, we need to focus on going above and beyond at every contact, right. Let’s redirect, right. Let’s redirect. And so it’s difficult, because that’s the buzz in the industry.

Nick Glimsdahl 16:06
Yeah. Right. And,

Brett Frazer 16:08
and when that’s, you know, when your CEOs talking about and you see, you know, the C suite, it’s hard not to think, well, I have to do that, because they’re asking for it. It’s hard to bring back and say, You know what, that’s really not what our customers want, huh?

Nick Glimsdahl 16:23
Yeah, no, I think I love how you kind of broke those down into the into the basics, the basics are not just because they’re basic doesn’t make them easy. And when it comes to having these foundational pieces that you’re looking at, so walking through all of those, those that you just mentioned, almost having it and I’ve kind of talked to, there’s a CIO, who was the first CIO of a very large insurance company. And he said, Here’s five things that we need to focus on, because we’re all focusing on everything that isn’t important. And he goes if, if I for some reason, and they create a mouse pads, and hats and all sorts of stuff, right, and he goes, if I come to you, and I’m the CIO, and you’re just this little newbie, and I don’t talk and it’s not aligned with one of these five things, you call me out. And you call anybody else out in the in the organization. And in the first week, he had six people, that associates or managers or directors calling other people out. And he wanted to tell him every single time, the second option was the second week, it was one person the third week, it was nobody because they all knew where they were focused on. And it’s so easy to get away from what’s not important to get to focus on those buzzwords. Yeah, absolutely agree. So one of the, you know, they’re they’re all of this foundation is so important. But, you know, I think obviously, measuring on what that foundation is, is is also very important. So what metrics are you using to measure if you’re delivering on the basics or not? Yeah, absolutely.

Brett Frazer 18:04
So first and foremost, we we measure customer effort score. So for a little over a year, we measured both customer satisfaction, and we’d be using customer satisfaction prior to that, and customer effort side by side. And we saw a lot of correlations, we kind of did a lot of analysis into what was driving and what we felt we got a better feedback from we did some AV testing around our surveys and how we asked for questions in our follow up questions. We really found when we focused our follow up questions on more detail around effort, we got far more usable detail in feedback than we did around satisfaction. So going into this year, we actually dropped customer satisfaction and we use customer effort score is our number one measure. From a customer perspective, we still measure agent satisfaction, because I want to be able to have a number that’s good for them, that doesn’t impact the things that are outside of their control. Right. So still having that agent, and then we look at resolution. And then under customer effort, we’ve got some sub category questions on both effort, Agent satisfaction and resolution that help us to identify where the negative elements go along with that. Right. So that’s the first part. Second part is you have to balance that out. And we balanced that out by bringing in the scores from our QA program, which we’ve taken certain questions about, we’ve aligned our QA our mission statement, we’ve aligned our mission statement to our satisfaction effort survey. And then we’ve aligned questions about high effort back into our QA score as well. So we can take surveys and QA and correlate them back together. And then we’ve added a third wheel to that of an agent self evaluation where they can quickly say, what do you think the customer would rather like rate for effort agent satisfaction resolution on this contact. So theoretically on on a single call, we can have three points of data around the effectiveness of that call. We’ve just started with the agent self evaluation a little earlier the year we kind of did the correlation piece. And so we’re really working on how do we kind of use that agent, self evaluation to potentially be a predictor of what’s going to happen, and stop maybe even doing some proactive reach out based on that. And so that’s kind of the first part around quality. And then, of course, we all have budgets to achieve, right? So then we look at efficiency based on volume of work. And for us, we use that as case comments per hour, we’re going to a number of other things that we measure, you know, from a scorecard perspective, but you know, really that that on a on a weekly basis, and then our agent, employee NPS, kind of on a quarterly basis, those are kind of the big three things that we look at. And so from my okrs, its agent satisfaction, its customer effort, and then NPS across the company. So I share part of that with all my other leaders. It’s our stewardship, about budget to our cost per contact, and our compensation will give them back to customers. And then it’s our doing easy to do business with. So it’s a percentage of automation, and the percentage of volume of customers that we’re receiving relative

to our co customers.

So those are the kind of total at the high level. But for this, specifically, those measures around quality and efficiency, allow us to really make sure that we’re doing those basics

Nick Glimsdahl 21:26
correctly. Yeah, man, man, I love the structure that you have on the foundation of the organization, and then how it directly correlates with both the employee and the customer, and how that breaks down inside the customer service. So kudos to you on on making that happen, and dropping customer satisfaction moving over to customer effort. You know, when it sounds like there’s a bunch of buy in, and you talked about the CFO a couple questions ago. So, you know, how do you take all of this information? Obviously, you said the NPS is kind of shared across the entire organization. But how do you take the ones that you control? And that you’re focused on and that you’re measured on? And how do you show that ROI on delivering the best experience?

Brett Frazer 22:16
Absolutely. And we haven’t cracked that yet. But we are on the path to that this year. Yes, we do have great buy in from the company. I, my previous manager was COO, who’s now a CFO, he really was a great support for customer service. I now report into our CFO, he loves customer service, he’s got a great quote that he uses. Nothing bad ever happened from being in front of your customer. And when you see if I believe that then that makes your job as the head of customer service and experience that much easier. So really, what we are focused on this year is is trying to come up with that tie between interaction with customer service and revenue. We don’t we kind of we think we know what the right number is. And we’re kind of playing around. But we use and we’re not trying to come up with that ourselves. We partner with our data science team, and our marketing team to really come back and kind of say, Okay, how do we wrap this back into a number that they believe and they support and they see and it’s something that they’re also looking at, so that when we come back into making an investment into our customers on retention, we can truly see customer services and investment that has the same element of investing here gives us x percentage on our long term value of our customers our lifetime value. We’re about order ratio. And so we really kind of figure out what is that one key metric, we haven’t finalized it yet, I think we’re pretty close. By the end of this quarter. That’s the the element is that between the three of us, we’re very clear that this is the metric that we believe is the right one to to measure us on moving forward. And then we’ll be able to start doing some AV testing, in order to be able to look at customers that we do certain things more for and customers that we don’t, and really be able to start seeing that shift and that change. That’s one thing, having data science and having a good capability of being able to really think about customers and thinking about testing and customer service in the same way that you do with acquisition and other parts of the company.

Nick Glimsdahl 24:24
Yeah, that’s amazing. When have you always had that leadership buy in around the customer and the focus on the customer, the metrics behind the customer? It’s shifted, I

Brett Frazer 24:34
think we we’ve always felt, you know that we’ve been a customer focused company. But I really think that for the longest time it was looked at the customer service was just something that had to happen and how do we reduce the cost? How do we reduce the cost etc. And you know, and there are also parts of it where we insert injected more friction where we probably didn’t need to and so now we’ve kind of done a lot of, okay, we shouldn’t inject friction there. We should allow this to be easier. And then we can focus around here. So I think it’s, it’s an evolving understanding of truly that that positive impact that that touchpoint with customers can have.

Nick Glimsdahl 25:11
Yeah. So based off of the question, or based off the quote that you had, or that your your CFO had mentioned, how much time do you spend focusing on and talking to the customer?

Brett Frazer 25:25
Absolutely. I was a customer service agent, I started in this business as a customer service agent. And I love talking with customers, happy customers, angry customers, sad customers. It’s a privilege. And


I do that in kind of three ways that I touched into the customer every week, I start every week looking at customer service verbatim from the previous week, and sharing kudos back out with the agents, because it’s important for them to hear that and know that. And two point early of racking those around. Great customer experiences start with great patient experiences. So that’s the first thing I do I look at that, and also look through the negative feedback. And I put one to two is like, hey, there’s, there’s an opportunity here that this customer need to follow up. And I’ll either pass it off, or I’ll pick something that I reach out and talk to directly myself. And be like a couple of examples from last week. One was a customer who was it was their feedback from a survey from a cancellation. They love the service, it helped them through COVID their son was with them. The son was going back to school in like a week. No, it’s great. It would be great if we could order just once in a while. But you know, we don’t need it every week. And so I reached out and thanked them us, we said, Hey, we’re so glad and proud that we’re able to help you totally get it you don’t need every week, did you know that you can actually order it only once in a while. And if you’d like I can put you on this plan. That’s what they want. And they’re absolutely happy for that. So by reading that, you know, they’re not going to order every week, but that customer is going to keep ordering. Yeah, flip to another side where a customer who had some disabilities and was so happy to be able to bring some basket into her kitchen. Because we’ve got these great oven ready meals and fresh and ready you just put them in the oven. It’s fresh food, partially cooked, but you know, there’s no cleanup. There’s no mess. There’s no prep, right, six minutes in the microwave 25 minutes in the oven. And that’s what she wanted. But she didn’t realize through the joint flow that she could select a plan that would only default those meals. And so while she got one, and then she got a couple of other kids that she thought were really delicious was too much work. Yeah. So she was like, well, you’re not giving me what I want. I quit. And so again, I reached out to her. And today I’m so happy. And you know, I’d love to be able to help you here. Did you know that this is something you can do. And I’m really sorry that this wasn’t obvious for you through the join flow. And again, that’s what she wanted, she’s rejoined, I’ve moved her into that program, I gave her some compensation because she ended up with meals that she couldn’t use. And again, just that little bit of outreach, you know, does that and so I pull it through there, I do QA as I listened to at least three coaches every week, try to do more, but if I’m not doing it, or if I am doing it, then it shows the importance for everyone else in the team around doing few ways. And then occasionally, when I’ve got time, I’ll pull cases from the queue. So I try to spend at least five hours a week one way or another touching back into the customer.

Nick Glimsdahl 28:26
Yeah, no, I believe that it’s so important to actually take that time and listen, and I love the examples that you just gave about reaching back out, because not only did they, in those cases, continue to do business with you. But you take that and say, Man, the lady that had the disability, how do we make it easier for her to understand in the front end, that that is an option. And so maybe let’s look through that process. And let’s figure out maybe there’s a better way to do that moving forward? Or maybe let’s ask one additional question. In that onboarding process, that’s my three o’clock call today. I swear we did not plan that. You know, so I wrap up every podcast with two questions. And the first question is, is what book or person has influenced you the most in the past year? And the second question is, if you could leave a note to all the customer service professionals, what would it say? Cool.

Brett Frazer 29:22
So I’ve got two books that come to mind. The first one actually helped me really to bring together a lot of things that I had kind of been thinking of and knowing intuitively across this past year of collective years of collective customer experience, and really is to help kind of shape a lot of what we do in some basket today. And that’s the atheletic effortless experience by Dixon Tomasson delisi. It’s a great blueprint for building an amazing customer service organization. And in really give you some core things that will help you with those basics that we talked about earlier. That’s really helped to shape our team and me and I’ve shared it with many others on on the on the team. The second one that kind of helped me keep focused on those important things. I’m really enjoying the subtle art of not giving a bleep by Matt Mason. In chapter two, he’s got this great line problems never stop, they merely get exchanged and or upgraded. And that leads into my notes, while the customer service professionals there will always be problems, relish in identifying and solving them and moving on to the next back to the book happiness and the you know, the man talks about his happiness comes from not not having problems, but from solving problems. So get out there have fun, solve a lot of problems and relish doing it.

Nick Glimsdahl 30:47
That is some great advice in in two great books. One I have not read, I read that for this experience. But I look forward to picking up the other one. So Brett, what’s the best way for people to get ahold of you maybe heard this podcast, they want to learn more about sun basket, or want to connect with you online.

Brett Frazer 31:06
You know, LinkedIn, you can see me on LinkedIn, I, you know, try to check every couple of days and reach out there. I love connecting in with other service professionals. I’m part of a couple of organizations that you know, help keep me grounded and connected. And, you know, just a quick plug for them. You Jackson, the know, has been a huge payer help for me and a huge organization there. They’ve got a great section in there no at all, where professionals get out there and help and share with each other. But I love connecting and directly. And so hit me up on LinkedIn. I’m always happy to talk and answer questions, get on the phone and chat and learn. You know, whenever I talk with someone and they wanted to find something out with me, I always learn something as well. So I love it.

Nick Glimsdahl 31:53
Matt, Matt is great. And if you want to sign up for sun basket, probably either go direct or maybe have Brett connect you with the cuffs customer service team to get you started on the right onboard plan.

Brett Frazer 32:09
I think there’s a link on my LinkedIn page to click off and sign up for $40 off so you can always try that as well.

Nick Glimsdahl 32:15
There you go. I will add that to the episode for anybody that wants it. Brett, thank you so much for joining me on press one for Nick and I hope you have a great day.

Brett Frazer 32:26
Nick. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you


The Press 1 For Nick podcast is both educational and engaging, and each episode offers listeners a dynamic blend of insightful stories, best practices, and invaluable lessons.

Nickโ€™s guests – each with a unique wealth of knowledge – include leaders from a variety of backgrounds and industries. Some of his guests include:

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  2. If you could leave a note to all the Customer Service and CX professionals, what would it say?

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