Mike Goldsby – Stoops Distinguished Professor of Entrepreneurship at Ball State University

Nick Glimsdahl 0:02
Welcome to the press one for Nick Podcast. I am Nick Glimsdahl. My guest this week is Dr. Mike Goldsby. He is a professor of entrepreneurship and executive director of the Entrepreneurship Center in the Miller College of Business at Ball State University. He teaches creativity, innovation and design in the university’s undergrad and graduate programs and entrepreneurship is research on entrepreneurship and fitness has been reported on everywhere, including all the major networks, and his book, which he co-authored with Rob Matthews is entrepreneurship the Disney way. Welcome to the podcast, Mike.

Mike Goldsby 0:36
Thank you, Nick. Good to be on the show. Yeah,

Nick Glimsdahl 0:38
So um, one thing I’ve recently found out is that you run marathons and Iron Man. So you know, which a big deal is. And it’s not, it’s difficult. And it’s definitely not easy. But you also did a study around fitness. But you know, before we get into the study, you know, what made you want to get into these Iron Man’s because nobody just wakes up and jumps off their couch and says, hey, you know what, I’m going to brush these knees off and start doing an Iron Man.

Mike Goldsby 1:08
Yeah, I think, you know, it comes from a sports background. And I was a very serious runner when I was younger. When I say younger, I mean, I was very serious runner up into my mid-40s. And I started to have some injuries. And, and also, I, as I started to slow down as a runner, and I was still I mean, I was still fairly fast. But you know how it is running yourself. Not what I once was, and I needed a challenge that would still make me get up in the morning and have something to train for. And there’s nothing, no bigger challenge in endurance sports and Ironman triathlons, there’s a lot to learn. There’s a lot of training, and it’s something that you can get better at. For a long time. There’s a big, there’s a big learning curve, which appealed to me that it would be something that would allow me to satisfy my competitive juices even as I get over.

Nick Glimsdahl 1:55
Yeah, no, that’s really cool. So you did the fitness study? Can you tell me more about that?

Mike Goldsby 2:02
Yeah, sure. Now, I’ve actually done a number of studies on fitness and entrepreneurs, and I’ve got some new work coming out too. And predominantly, what they’re looking at is that, as you were saying, by being busy entrepreneurs are some of the busiest people in the world. And so any time away from the business has to be asked is that is that time well spent. And so when you’re, when you’re if you’re training for a race, whatever it is, or you’re doing some sport, whatever it is, you’re not at the business. So should you be at the business. And one of the predominant factors that we looked at a lot were things like stress, how it affects stress, a new study we’re doing right now looks at security, your sense of security, we’ve looked at goals in the past how you achieve your goals, and we’ve even looked at the company’s performance. And what we found is that a consistent physical fitness routine specifically, even more vigorous, the better, or vigorous, the better, that it reduces stress. And when you can reduce stress, you increase your engagement in the business, you feel better. And it also actually helps with keeping people from exiting the business from being exhausted. So working out actually helps with exhaustion. And more importantly, it gives you satisfaction when stress goes down, and you’re more satisfied. And then the company performs better as well. So, you know, what we will, my co-authors we will look at is we were all serious athletes ourselves, some are former college athletes in some of these studies, and we were saying, you know, we’re pretty high performers in our profession. And we all work out daily. And we’re pretty serious. Is that the case with entrepreneurs as well? And we found that it was.

Nick Glimsdahl 3:50
Yeah, so for the ones who, who are not into fitness, who are running a startup or trying to be an entrepreneur, or who are entrepreneurs, would you give them an advice to say, hey, you might want to start working out or do some type of physical fitness to improve your engagement or, you know, give them that extra pap?

Mike Goldsby 4:13
I definitely would. And there’s some reasons for that, to some of the research we looked at too is that I stress if people have stress, they may not be sleeping well. And if they’re not sleeping, well, they may gain weight. If they gain weight, they may also have other health problems. And so physical fitness is just a wonderful natural way to reduce stress and have all those positive physical things because the deal is if you have any type of physical problems, then that’s going to interfere with running the business as well or it’s going to make life more stressful or it’s going to make it harder. So it’s really worth it to fit something in whether it’s yoga, whether it’s weightlifting or running or cycling. Or whatever, you know, people need to get take some time to move. The other thing, I think too Is it. We’ve never studied this, but it’s something for future studies is I think that I don’t know about you, but I get a lot of my good ideas when I’m running or when I’m on my bike. And I think it’s sort of meditative, we get away from our daily concerns in our mind kind of opens up, and it gets an idea start to release it. So you know, we’re outside or we’re in a different environment. We’re meditative in the sense of focusing our breathing or focusing our activity. And all those concerns of the day go away. And then and then creativity bubbles up as well. So I think that’s an awesome benefit that’s well worth studying. Yeah,

Nick Glimsdahl 5:40
No, I think that would I would be interested in reading that in for a future article or research. I would, I would 100% agree when you’re out there, and you’re putting in effort, regardless of the sport, your mind clears past the fog of every day. And when you get in this rhythm of breathing, and exercise and feeling potentially pains, sweating, etc., you become focused on the important things, immediately, what’s important to you and your state of mind, in running or any other sport, but then you are able to clearly focus on other things. So it’d be fun, fun one to look at. But, yeah, before we get into the book, which I look forward to is, what does customer experience mean to Mike?

Mike Goldsby 6:30
Yeah, so customer experience to me, is it It’s a feeling that I get as a customer, it’s a feeling that no matter what you’re saying, or what you’re advertising or things try to put out there, it’s a way that you really interact with me, it’s a way your product or service, what it provides me, it’s the way you treat me, it’s where if I have a problem, you help me with it, it’s where maybe you help prevent some of the problems by thinking ahead and trying to work those things out. It’s trying to fix those things. So it’s, it’s really showing that you deeply care about me as a customer, that I’m not just $1 going into your company’s bank, but that I’m actually the focus of why you’re in business. And we know that, you know, we sit in the actions, and we see it in in the interactions as well. It’s more than just the corporate lines that are, you know, heavily processed and designed, which are important. That’s your message, but you want to make sure that the actions and the interactions are consistent with those corporate lines. Yeah,

Nick Glimsdahl 7:47
Yeah. No, it’s so important to not just have music to the customer’s ears, if it’s not what your true action is. Exactly. So great point. What made you want to write this book, the entrepreneurship the Disney way?

Mike Goldsby 8:01
Well, you know, it’s interesting, because I, I did not have much history with the Walt Disney Company, when I got interested in writing the book. And what happened was, I was at a conference around 2008. And I, you know, I came from more of a sports background. And so I spent a lot of time in the mountains, I spent a lot of time in places that were outdoors, I did some rock climbing, too. So I was I was more of an outdoors person, I didn’t have much interest in theme parks. And I was at a conference in Anaheim. And I had a late flight it got it got pushed back, and I had some time. And right down the road was Disneyland. And I thought, you know, maybe I’ll go down there and check it out. And I had been there once as a little kid I had, I have vague memories of it. And I went, I went there and I spent the day. And I remember taking a break. And I was sitting on the hub at Disneyland and mill the park in front of the castle, the iconic castle. And I saw a partner statue of Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse. And I was just so impressed with everything I was seeing that day. And I was really enjoying this, the experience. And I thought, you know, I want to know more about this person who came up with this. And so I started reading up on Walt Disney and the more I dug into Walt Disney, the more I got fascinated with him, and it, and it just became an obsession, in a sense, one of a kind. He’s an icon, he was an icon to Steve Jobs, and so many other great entrepreneurs. And I can see why I mean, his life story. And what he attained and what he achieved. And what we still live in, in width is a result of Walt Disney. I mean, it’s, and it showed me that the impact what one person can do in the world. And that became a theme of so many things of the impact one person can have on history and on the world at different sizes. And the more I learned about him, the more I got to the point where I actually ended up making Friends with a lot of people at the company and I have friends still who are executives at the company, and some former retired executives who are now buddies that we do things together. And all that stemmed out of out of a curiosity and what was the same way? What would pursue a path that he just got curious with them they got obsessed with and had no set plan? But eventually, I thought, you know, I’ve got to share these things that I’m finding incredible about Walt Disney in the company, to others my own lessons because I as a as a business professor and a professor of design and creativity, as well. I don’t know of any other company that mixes creativity and business better together in the Walt Disney Company. Hmm.

Nick Glimsdahl 10:47
Yeah, its fascinating reading your book around the lessons, the Disney lessons, what you kind of spread throughout the entire book? And was there 30 lessons? Is

Mike Goldsby 10:59
That right? Yeah, that’s right. 30 lessons.

Nick Glimsdahl 11:01
So I want to pick a few of them, and then ask you a few questions on it. But you know, the first one I want to ask you is on a lesson for and its go where you’re best place of opportunity is. And you go on to say that not everyone is willing to leave the perceived safety of what they know. Why is that?

Mike Goldsby 11:20
Yeah, so the keyword there is perceived, perceived, you know, sense of safety. Because as we’ve learned through the COVID situation, many of us probably thought that we were in save situations, and it was perceived. And you know, we’ve found that we weren’t. So the way to live your life is always to play the best opportunity for you. Now that that doesn’t always mean moving. Maybe the best opportunity for you is where you’re at right now. And you need to do your best to making that work. But if there’s something better, the really successful people always go to the better they and they’re willing to take that risk giving up what’s known with the faith that they’ll figure it out as they go. And that’s what that’s all about. And Walt Disney. At a young age, he left Kansas City where he grew up and went out to Hollywood to be with his brother and his uncle. And if I can just share with you something about that about the place of best opportunity. This boggles my mind. I’ve told this story so many times, because when I dug into the history, and the serendipity in the unknown, what built that company after bankruptcy later into what it is today with it with his brother, Roy, okay. Roy had eight years of baking experience. from working in Kansas City, he goes off to World War One, he gets tuberculosis, he comes back, he doesn’t go into the bank, because he’s has to recuperate from tuberculosis, he goes out to California to be near his uncle. And also because the air is drier and warmer, because I think that’ll help. And when Walt goes bankrupt, he goes out there to be with his brother. And if Laurie is not convalescing in Hollywood, at a VA hospital, Walt doesn’t have Roy to do the business side, they built the business at the golden age when Hollywood is just starting to take off. Because before that, in animation, New York City was the place he goes out there. And with $40, in his pocket, goes to Kansas City and his brother brings the eight years bacon experience that you can use there because he’s not working in Kansas City. If Roy had not had tuberculosis, why would have married his sweetheart in Kansas City, being a banker? And what probably would not be the person we have today. So everything that you know about the Walt Disney Company, everything that you see every visit you have with one of their parks is a result of that serendipitous moment in time, at the right place, right time, right people doing the right thing, but one boy joining up in 1923

Nick Glimsdahl 14:03
Is it a heck of a story? Yeah. And if his brother wouldn’t, wouldn’t have gotten tuberculosis, he wouldn’t have moved from Kansas City either.

Mike Goldsby 14:12

Nick Glimsdahl 14:13
No, it’s up. I read that in there. And it was a good ad. You know, one of the things you also mentioned was, Walt looked at the films from the perspective of his customers, and I believe that’s really important. And, and he knew that what the audience liked, because he believed that he was one of them. Why was it important to for Walt to walk in the shoes of his customers?

Mike Goldsby 14:39
You know, it’s something I think we there’s sides of Walt that some people said that he could be kind of a wounded bear type of guy, he could walk around and he’d be stressed. And you know, we heard this about Steve Jobs, how Steve Jobs is Mercurial. And I’m sure they had that aside to their personality, but I think more of it came from the fact of how much they were trying to Give to the customer. I think they care, they care deeply that whatever they gave them, was going to be of the highest quality. And well, having grown up in Middle America, he was kind of the average American at that time. And so he understood America. And he wanted to, I think, certainly he want to give those people something that he, he missed out on when he was younger, you know, and so he was able to, he was not only creating for them, he was creating for himself, but almost like his younger self, and for people, just the average American out there in the country that, you know, maybe didn’t have the most refined taste maybe wasn’t schooled in the best schools, but just, you know, hardworking Americans that he wanted to give them something to brighten their day. And more importantly, this is what Walt always tried to do, and what all the great entrepreneurs do, especially when it comes to customer experience, they try to surprise and delight those customers, they not only give them what they’re expecting, they give them more, they give them something that they haven’t seen before, something they don’t normally get. And I’m always convinced that when you get to find out what support your customer, and make sure you meet that, and I call those critical success factors. But then you need to need to go a step further. To surprise them. You know, that’s what Steve Jobs said, as well, just as Disney was, the customer didn’t always know what they wanted. And so when we show it to them, if we know them, well, we’ll have a belief that they’re going to love it and related to them with a customer experience, and all those lessons there. And this, this is something I think that needs to be really important to you to your listeners is attention to details, attention to details, I mean, obsessing over the details, those little details on their own one individual one might not be that big of a deal. But 1000 of those added up will make the difference. Yeah, no,

Nick Glimsdahl 16:55
I love that actually, this is a great transition. So lesson eight, it talks about the entrepreneurial leaders set the example for everyone else in the company to follow. So if you want to know what Walt Disney was like, all you have to do is watch one of his productions. And, you know, he, he had this obsessive nature to the quality that he was providing to his customers. And I and I love that. But I believe the same is true in customer service. You know, we need to have every interaction from customer service should be a production to that customer. And I believe that customer service needs to have also that obsessive quality to that customer experience. But you know, you kind of talked about the obsessiveness. But you know, it’s interesting on how much he was obsessed with that, the quality and what he would put into it, just the little tiny marks. And like you just said the marks made the difference, because it was incremental, incremental thing. So back to running, just because you ran your five miles or 10 miles or 15 miles that week, doesn’t mean you’re going to see the difference in the week after, but it was the incremental things over time that you’re going to reach the ultimate goal.

Mike Goldsby 18:08
Exactly. Yeah, I’m reading a lot of books right now about professional cycling, because I’m trying to get better on the cycling part of triathlons. And I’m so I’m reading a lot about the lance Armstrong air in the US Postal. And what’s fascinating is how much attention to detail those champion teams give that not only to the riders, but the mechanics in some years and all the people around the team in the dieticians and it’s the attention to details because a half a percent could be the difference in a 21-day race. Right?

Nick Glimsdahl 18:44
Yeah, and just turning the digit just a little bit, or making sure that they have the right shoes, or the right socks that they’re wearing. There was and I can’t remember the coach back in the day, but I think it was might have been Duke University, I might be getting totally botched, but just bear with me for a second. He was a Hall of Fame coach and he would get all these you know, probably the best of the best players and D 1. And the very first day in practice, he would make sure that they knew how to tie their shirts correctly. And all these players at the very beginning were like, specifically freshmen because they hadn’t gone through like you’re nuts, like what are we doing? We’re almost professional athletes. I’m probably only going to be here for a year. And he goes, I want you to understand the basics before I can teach everything else.

Exactly. Do you remember that? Do

Do you remember the coach by chance?

Mike Goldsby 19:33
Actually, I think it was john wooden that you said. Yeah. And I say it because john Wooden’s from Indiana and I’m here in Indiana. So we have grown. We grew up as a state religion

Nick Glimsdahl 19:46
As a young boy, there you go. But you know going back to the foundation and understanding the basics before you understand what’s important, but you know, even cycling this need to think of the biggest race in cycling the Tour de France. It’s It is a production and you like that half a percent is made or break. So, a chat lessons lesson 11 you talk about, you know, the price to pay for greatness. So what is the price to pay for greatness? Yeah, I

Mike Goldsby 20:19
Mean there’s a, there’s a big price to pay for greatness and he had it, you have to be willing to accept this. And I coach a lot of business people very often very successful. And oftentimes, they’ll be at different stages where they’re going through something hard. And I’ll say, yep, this is exactly what you’re supposed to be going through. At this time at the company. This is exactly this is the game, this is how it works. And it’s comforting for them to know that when they hear that they’re like, Okay, this is this. It’s okay because this is what this is how it works. And with greatness, greatness, there’s always a tradeoff. I you know, I think if you I don’t know if you saw it, but the last dance on ESPN about Michael Jordan, it was really well done 1010 episode documentary really well done. And it showed the price that he paid to be great. I think anybody who becomes great the tradeoff is, is you’re not going to live a life like other people. And when you don’t live a life like other people, you’re not fear people that understand what you’re going through. And it’s not only lonely at the top, because maybe there’s you have a different material existence, maybe people want a certain piece. I don’t think you have to be like financially wealthy to be great, you’d be great at something but anybody that’s great at something. There’s fewer people that understand the price that’s paid, there’s three people that understand what went into that, that wasn’t it didn’t just happen overnight. It’s like, it’s like, and Nick, when you before the show, you and I talked a lot about running and we were you know, we’re both serious runners. So we know the price to be paid when you do 100 miles you know, there’s a few parties you miss along the way there’s a few family gatherings you might not go to because of race. But other everybody else is enjoying a different way of life. And very few people understand the joy of what comes with being excellent at something, but also the price that’s paid by the tradeoff. And in life. Everything is tradeoffs. And part of that greatness, too, is that as you push hard, you know, I don’t know about you, but when I was doing a lot of my heavy miles as a runner, maybe I was a little tired on the other hours of the day, maybe I didn’t maybe I got a little grumpy now and then because I might, you know, I was I was a little stressed out from the body hurting, you know, or I didn’t run as well as I wanted to in a race. And so that there’s also a sort of a price to be paid in our mood with greatness obsessiveness. So I think I think fewer people understand what it takes to be great. And then to what it’s like to be to live a life of greatness. And really, when we talk about greatness, we’re talking about excellence. And but you know, for those of us who are wired or have a value system that’s based on excellence, we wouldn’t want it any other way. But you have to accept that. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. And most people don’t understand that price. And they there’s not much empathy for people who are excellent. There’s not much empathy for greatness, because they think, Well, they’ve got it all. It’s like, Nah, they, they really don’t they give up a lot of things to have that greatness. Yeah,

Nick Glimsdahl 23:22
A lot of people only see greatness for when people are great. They don’t see the sacrifice that they put in, because that’s from my perspective, and a lot of times it’s a sacrifice of time, that you’re doing something in replaced with something else. Yeah. And it’s, you know, being purposeful for the right reasons, instead of having, you know, sticking with status quo, you’re actually looking at ways to improve and adapt in that moment. And maybe that’s where some of the biggest entrepreneurs have made their moves, because they see that, that that inside that race there, they see, I made an analogy. In a talk I gave in October and talked about in running, it’s funny, we keep going back and running. But in running, there comes a point in time, specifically in any race, but you’re behind somebody and you need, you’re very uncomfortable. But there’s a need to be a time and in that race that you need, make them move and go around them. Or you’re going to stick with status quo, and you’re going to say I’m good, or I’m going to see what this is going to be like, and it’s going to be really uncomfortable. And I might hit my next personal record. So being able to take that in seeing them move that move, but it’s not going to kill me, right? It’s going to hurt really badly. Yeah. But it might get me to my next stepping stone to where my business objectives are supposed to be.

Mike Goldsby 24:43
Yeah, my brother, he’s a very good runner as well. And we’ve done a lot of writing together. And we used to say that when it’s hurting the most, that’s when you should push the hardest, right? So instead of backing off, you push harder because you know that maybe some of the other people were break at that same time, and for me, when I whenever ran the mile, it was always at third lap. You know, everybody can kick on the last lap, but it but it’s after the crossing 800 meters in running a mile race two laps that you go, okay, on that back stretch of the third lap and everybody’s trying to regather I’m going to push it and I’m going to push it hard. And just and then just see what I got on the last quarter. And we were talking about Alan Webb, I saw him do that a number of times when he would race he would put the hammer down on that third lap. And you just see the other people just crumble. And that’s the way it is in business to kind of when’s the hardest. So when you when you push right now with COVID, and everything else going on, I know people are having a business people are going through a really hard time, but the ones that push and make it through this are going to be are going to have a boom period in a couple of years. I mean, again, more business than they can handle. Because once the economy comes back, I think we’re going to this is going to be the roaring 20s. After this all passes, people are going to be so cooped up. And just like in 1920s, in the 1920s, after the Spanish flu and World War One, they called it the roaring 20s because they were just ready to explode in the live life. And I think we’re going to be the same way. So hang in there, whatever you can do to hang in there. Because once if you get through this period, there’s a goldmine on the other side of it.

Nick Glimsdahl 26:22
Yeah, that is some great advice. You know, couple of things. Couple other things I want to touch on. Did you mention that in? Well, that that there’s a lot of quotes that you have inside this book. You know, which one is your favorite? Do you have given a one that just kind of stands out to you?

Mike Goldsby 26:42
Yeah, you know, it’s something that was said that, well, my favorite one is about mother that I wrote was about putting your place in the best place opportunity for yourself. I mean, I believe in that so much that that for you. Entrepreneurs are always opportunity about the opportunity. So we talked, we discussed that. But for what it was, it was the best way to get started doing something is to quit talking to start doing. And you know, like writing a book, there’s a lot of people talk about writing a book, but very few who actually do write a book. And I can tell you that writing a book is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Hardest thing I’ve ever done, because you talked about sacrifice. When you’re sitting behind that computer, and you’re trying to get the words down, and you’re editing and rewriting, and it’s a beautiful July day, and you know, you’re just like, ah, and you got a deadline coming up and you want to be outside, you want to be on the bike, or you want to be out in the mountains or doing something. And you’ve got to sit there and write that book. And, you know, so you know that it’s what Walt said, you know, you got it you got to do and now let me just say this is the other thing that I have found is that and this has become a way of life for me is that the difference also on the on the greatness and people who are excellent, is they do the hard things first, they get started. And as I’ve gotten very, very almost maniacal about getting things done, I try to get things done as before deadlines, I try to get things done. If something’s due, and I have things due in February, I’m going to try to get them done by November. One, it just, it shocks the heck out of people who are expecting it and it becomes kind of your personal brand. But the second thing is, is that I don’t like the feeling of having something on my shoulder. I don’t like I don’t know how anybody could procrastinate and put something off because that rock on your shoulder just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I’d rather remove it. So I can spend more of my time focusing on things that I really want to do or want to get better at. And so I’m much focused about what I what I do. And if I commit to something, I get going on it. And that’s what Walt Disney did as well, you know, everything that The Walt Disney Company has today, because of Walt would not have happened without that same philosophy that he had.

Nick Glimsdahl 29:13
Yeah, one of my favorite quotes that I’ve kind of had in my back pocket is, whatever you do it well, and do it so well that when people see you do it, they will want to come back and see do it again. And then they’ll want to bring others and show them how well you do what you do. And I’m like, Wow, that is so awesome. Um, I guess my question is, why did why do come? Why do families keep coming back to Disney?

Mike Goldsby 29:40
Well, you know, the main reason is, there’s nothing like it in the world. And I now that I’ve done the research and I’ve gotten to know the company and I go back quite regularly. And I’ll tell you this every time I go back. Every trip is better. Every trip is better. You would think I get to I love it. But the reason being is that in, you know what called it the incident as people call it the architecture of reassurance, it’s a place that no matter what’s going on in the world, there’s a place there, that is going to show real care for the customer. And also put it within an environment built on all those details on all those attention to details, and consistent theming. So you’ve got, you’ve got the really unique place that they’ve built. And then you’ve got the customer service within that. And what’s fascinating is that people who go there and come back regularly say that one of the things that they really remember about the trips really is the interaction with the cast members more than anything else. And I think that’s one of the key lessons for customer service is I, I gave some talks last year, to some groups, different professional groups. And I said the best advertising for your company is your employees. Because it’s your employees to interact with people. Because if you have good interaction with the employees, I guarantee that the word of mouth that comes from that is going to be the best advertising and that’s not just word of mouth, to people outside your home, it could be word of mouth to people in your family, you know, the next trip that you know somebody goes to Disney and may not just be a couple or one family might be five families going together and booking that so Disney makes its money on recurring revenue. Yeah, it wants you to have a bigger, a bigger slice of the pie when you go there. But it’s also on you coming back over and over again. And the only way they can do that is to maintain that standard that won’t set and then offering new things. And when there’s a problem fixing it and giving the customers or the employees the leeway to fix those things, training them how to do that. And one of my good friends, Dan Cockrell used to run the Magic Kingdom. He ran Epcot, he ran Hollywood Studios, and now he’s, he’s retired. And he’s out there giving talks as well, on his experiences. And, you know, he said that training people to know what the right behaviors are, how to interact with the customers. People don’t always know that you got to train them on that. And you’ve got to for the frontline managers have to be with the frontline people to keep reinforcing what’s expected. And so they’re good on selection. And then they’re maniacal about training so that every single customer gets to experience, because for some people that might be their one trip, there they treat, treat it like that as if that’s that one person’s interaction with Disney. And they wanted to be a good one.

Nick Glimsdahl 32:40
Yeah, that no one thing and I there’s probably another 100 questions that I could ask, but the one comment based off of what you just said, on, you know, putting them through that internal customer service training, they do it at the beginning, before they even talk about their entire job, which they hired them for. And I think that is such a great lesson from everybody else in a company. And their goal was to create happiness is to create that experience where they do want to keep coming back. And it is it is a performance. So again, there’s probably another bunch of questions that I could ask, but maybe at a different time. So I wrap up every podcast with two questions. Okay. So the first question is, and you can’t say, well, Disney, but what book or person has influenced you the most in the past year? And then the second question is, if you can leave a note to all the customer service and all the customer experience representatives, and it would reach them all? What would it say?

Mike Goldsby 33:39
Great. Well, the one person that has really been influencing lately, as I told you, I’ve been reading a lot in Pro Cycling, it’s Lance Armstrong, I, you know, he’s kind of fallen off the pedestal over the last 10 years. But as I’ve read more about the story, the more I think that he was playing a pretty level playing field, I think I think the whole peloton was playing with the same things. His price for greatness was that people want to pick him out as the one example to tear down the rest of make everybody else pay for everybody else’s sins and punishment. But what I read during that time was a story it has stories of the way those proteins were built over 15 years. And the team managers and the coaches and Lance and how they all work together, to uh, to really win on a stage that no one had ever done before. As an American, I mean, my mom had, but the dominance of the US Postal team, it was unreal, what they accomplished in a sport that they should not have even been in, given the history and so I’ve loved reading about that and the attention to detail and the hard work that they were doing when others might be taking it easy in the wintertime, just the amount of preparation that went into winning. I just saw that so it’s another story about excellence that I’ve just loved. And as far as the, the tip that we give to your listeners, again, I’ll just repeat it, I, your employees are your best PR. And so customers now that might be yourself, even, you know, for one-person operation. But it’s that every interaction you have to treat, like it’s the only interaction going on. And you may have said something 50 times, we’ll say for the first time, because that Hershner is hearing it for the first time. And it’s that again, that’s that discipline, that attention to detail that separates so many. And then I think when you do that, you’re also modeling it for others to see as well. And, and then when they start seeing, they start putting the pieces together, when they start seeing what comes from that. You don’t have to say it as much, because they’re going to see it now. So it’s within the company, there’s a feeling of excellence, excellence is a good feeling. You were on sports teams, you know what I’m talking about there. But then also, for the people involved, you become a reliable, authentic brand. And it becomes a way of life. And so I that’s, that’s the piece I would give you is that, know that yourself or your employees are the best PR that you can ever have.

Nick Glimsdahl 36:27
Yeah, that’s great advice. Mike, what’s the best way for my listeners to connect with you?

Mike Goldsby 36:33
Yeah, so I’m on LinkedIn. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Michael Goldsby. But then also my email address, m goldsby@bsu.edu. So that’s, that’s Ball State University, where I’m a professor. So in GLD, spy@bsu.edu, or on LinkedIn, I’d be happy to meet as many of your listeners who want to know more about these ideas. And, Nick, I really enjoy talking to you. Thanks. I enjoy your show. And it’s a real honor to be on it.

Nick Glimsdahl 37:08
Yeah. Well, Mike, thank you so much. It was a pleasure to catch up and talk about the running days and hear more about Disney and entrepreneurship. I look forward to keeping in touch and learn more about you’re the research that you’ve done.

Mike Goldsby 37:22
Thank you. I appreciate it.

The Press 1 For Nick podcast is both educational and engaging, and each episode offers listeners a dynamic blend of insightful stories, best practices, and invaluable lessons.

Nick’s guests – each with a unique wealth of knowledge – include leaders from a variety of backgrounds and industries. Some of his guests include:

  • Customer service & customer experience leaders
  • A hostage negotiator
  • Award-winning authors
  • Home Depot’s Senior Director of Customer Care
  • Former VP of Disney’s Magic Kingdom
  • Lyft’s Head of Partner and Customer Engagement
  • Deputy Chief Veteran Experience Officer from the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs

On every episode Nick asks his guest two questions:

  1. What book or person has influenced you the most in the past year?
  2. If you could leave a note to all the Customer Service and CX professionals, what would it say?

You can find all the podcast guests’ answers under their episodes below.

If all you want is the guests’ book recommendations, you can go here.

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